I've never been to a fenced in dog park. It would otherwise just be like a day care. Those are great too, but being able to freely roam and pack, or wander off and have their space, is what is psychologically important to a dogs mind and health. Dog's can't get that in a pen, regardless how large the pen is. I don't call those chain linked fenced play pens a dog park.

I only visit the wide open dog parks here, Bridgman, Ambleside, and Spanish Banks.

There certainly may be the odd fight and outburst. But it doesn't happen very often AND it's normal dog behaviour. To deprive dogs of the other positive normal behaviour and fun that is available at dog parks because of there "might be" a flare up, is a robbery to dogs.

One wont find many people that will claim that dog parks were bad for their dog's health and they've stopped going. You will find people that come up with people reasons and excuses, though.

Sorry Rumpley, I didn't mean to derail your important post.

I'm not sure how to answer it, either? I see lots of normal pits come through Hug and this includes DA dogs.

Okay, Ambleside is my personal nightmare...and I used to have a dog I could take there! LOTS of intact purebreds all over the place with people sitting about a hundred miles away lounging on the logs while their dogs wreak havoc on the beach! I don't know how many times I heard "I have no idea why my dog keeps getting attacked?" while his nuggets swing away in the wind Spanish Banks on a weekday...maybe.....never on a weekend. I think people who know a lot about dog behaviour are rarely found at big dog parks because it makes us neurotic . I used to go my neighborhood school yard with my old dog with a couple neighbour dogs I knew, and that was enough for me.

I do agree some level of open socialization with dogs is very beneficial for development, but once that number of dogs hits above 4, that is about my limit. Plus, I think that four is a manageable amount of dogs for another dog to get along with as well. Imagine going to a party where you have to get along with 20 or 30 people and give them all hugs!??!?!?!? Nightmare! I think it's the numbers at local dog parks that really cause problems with dogs, along with checked out dog owners. But dog parks is another discussion......

On the dog aggression front, I think Pit people can't have their cake and eat it too, which is what is currently happening IMO. We preach away to new owners about watching for dog selectiveness/aggression yet we don't support the dogs in the system that have it? Or the other famous comment "that dog wasn't that bad before..." Well, Jammie came into my house like a sweet little lambykins totally dog social, and once she got comfortable, her inner diva came out! I didn't make her that way...it was just a settling in process after a few weeks elapsed. So the dog I "adopted" surely wasn't even close to the dog I ended up owning. I could see why a lot of people dump Pits when they discover the level of dog aggression sometimes.

my supervised play dates are at a local fenced in base ball feild with plenty of room if a dog needs its space, I also agree that a small number of dogs together is ideal, I am not comfortable with over 6 and again it depends on the ratio of dogs to humans...I don't encourage anyone to go to a "dog park" because I agree they are a nightmare !

Rumpley I disagree with you to a certian extent, HugABull takes reactive and seltective dogs all the time, if we didn't we would never have any dogs for adoption ? We don't take "I would like to eat your dog, dogs" because of the reality of their adoption rate etc BUT we have had some come threw the program.
We also have a 30 day hold period so that the dog has a chance to settle in and show its true colors (I wish more rescues would do this because it would mean alot less dogs returned) We also offer training and other support for our foster's and adopter's, so imo we are walking the talk.
We are above board and honest about the DA reality in this breed and the fact that just because your dog is freindly now doesn't mean that it will always be that way, I think honesty is the best policy with these dogs.

I have also found that most people are ok with a dog that doesn't like every single dog it meets as long as they are not trying to kill every dog they see, and if that is truely what they want them we encourage them to concider other breeds and to definalty get a young adult and not a puppy.

Haha April its ok but I do want to clarify that kane is very dog social..he just had intense leash reactivity when he saw a dog but wasnt allowed to visit it, but even that is getting better.

Carla and I have no problem taking selective dogs into our program but the main issue is finding foster homes that are realistic about them...also having them follow some guidelines such as no nose to nose meets, no off leash/dog parks.

One dog that we would love to pull into our program is Seal..hes selective with dogs and leash reactive but amazing with people..we just dont have a foster spot for him yet...

Elsie is another dog in our program that is dog selective but with proper intros can have dog friends BUT she wont back down from a challenge..her current foster to adopt parents know this and are fine with managing/working on her behaviour.

Every person that adopts through us is informed of potential dog issues, most are ok with it and those that arent decide to go to a different breed.

We have had quite a few people apply to adopt a pit bull but are very unrealistic on dog to dog issues (they want the temperment of a pit bull but want a 100% dog social dog). I assume its because the breed is starting to be seen in a better light???

I had to scroll back to the start of this thread and find out what the question was, as it seems to have evolved into several topics of discussion.
All I can share are my personal views on Hug - as I am not a director nor do I take part in the process of evaluating or pulling animals. In fairness, I think this thread is primarily directed towards the "leaders of the pack" here at Hug. And since we are the volunteers and the "grunts" of the leaders, we have to either say yes we are comfortable with DA dogs, or no, all we want are these mythical animals that love everyone and everything. For me, I think it's beyond rare that you find ANY BREED that loves every animal on this earth, thinks every dog is their best friend, and loves every annoying aunt and uncle that waltzes into your home over the holidays. If there were such groupings of animals, they may as well be Stepford Wives.

I 100% understand and respect the legal aspects of a rescue; and how one bad media write up could potentially collapse a rescue, and have HUGE negative implications for similar ones across Canada. Given this breed - and similar ones - are still fighting an ongoing battle (witch hunt) of misinterpretations, I can respect the directors opinions of not pulling severely dog aggressive animals. Does it make them hypocritical? In my opinion, no. Not at all. If they were advocating against the breed to potential owners BECAUSE the breed was DA, then yes, I would call them hypocrites. You can't fight for a cause if you're not willing to take on a breed that doesn't fit into the Stepford Wives mold, in my opinion. And that's a pit bull. It was bred to be a little shizzle disturber, have balls of glory, and live under the mantra "go big or go home." Back down from a fight? I don't think so. Nor should they. That would be like me backing down from a situation where I needed to defend myself. I wouldn't put my hands in my pockets and say "Alright, take a few shots."
It may be hard to tell potential owners, but they need to know the history of the breed, and need to understand the history and purpose it was bred for. There is nothing wrong with that, and if they take offense and walk off with the wrong message, then they can go adopt a labradoodle or something. The breed takes some understanding, and I think at times we become too stressed out in trying to make sure potential owners understand that, as we don't want negative backlash coming onto Hug, or the breed. But we have to put some trust and faith in adoptees.

All that said - I've never been one to label a dog by breed. A dog is a dog in my opinion. When Sinbad first came into my life, the first few months were hell. He hated me, he hated dogs, the only thing he really loved was food and sleeping. Today - after a lot of hard work - I take him to areas where there are many dogs (on and off leash) and am confident in my abilities as a responsible owner, and his abilities as a dog, to not go and tear out someone's throat. Having a dog that CAN'T go to highly populated areas is not for me, and I pretty much decided that whether Sinbad liked it or not, he was going to learn to behave around other dogs. And he has. It took a lot of meet and greets, lots of walking in high populated areas, and constant interaction with other dogs. I can't say for certain if he had social interactions before hand, but after 6 or so months, he was a whole new dog. I don't take him to confined off leash parks (I think they just act as a large kennel, and the dogs pick up on the territory issues and act accordingly) but I do take him to large areas that allow off leash dogs to run free, unconfined. And I am proud of him, I get very emotional to watch him run around with other dogs like a dog should.

In my life, I like to explore and move around, it takes me to highly populated areas. All my dogs need to be able to fit into my lifestyle, and if that takes me working my a$$ off to get them to be dog savvy or semi selective, then I will do it. It's an ignorant person who goes into adopting an animal thinking they come "ready made to their liking." People like that should just get a hamster, or a fish....

I also wanted to add that most shelters won't release their "perfect" Pit Bulls to rescue with out heavy persuasion if at all.... there are very few that will hand over a ready made dog of any breed to a rescue.... just food for thought.

I wanted to add on top the other posts about reactive dogs, is that we are finding that the majority of DA dogs (lately anyway) have actually turned out to be social but they through temper tantrums if they don't get to say HI to every dog they see... kane is exactly that, he is SUPER social with all animals but will have a tantrum if he can't go say hi....at first it was thought that he was DA but in the end thats not it at all.